Ska Studios » A word about Xbox Live Community Games/Indie Games

A word about Xbox Live Community Games/Indie Games

I haven’t done much with Xbox Community Games in awhile (this will change soon; I just need a break from Super Secret XNA Project 2.0), but that hasn’t stopped me from reading some fun articles lambasting the service for promising wealth, fame, and Princess-Bride-caliber true love, only to turn around and steal candy from orphans.

The main criticisms, as far as I can tell are:

Microsoft hasn’t done enough to market XBLCG
Microsoft has not made Community Games visible enough in the dash
Stupid apps are taking all of the sales

So put your money where your mouth is. If XBLCG is such a tragic platform, why not release on Windows?

Here’s why:

Visibility: Criticize XBLCG’s lack of marketing all you want, but for any hobbyist developer with minimal connections and no budget, having your game show up on the New Arrivals list ensures that (wild guesstimate) hundreds of thousands of people will see it. If it looks good, they’ll download it. If it’s fun, they’ll buy it. What’s the alternative? Well, for a Windows release you’d want to send press releases to and review codes to all of the indie game review sites you know, enter IGF, try to generate some buzz here and there, and hope for the best. Of course, if you make an XBLCG game, you can still send out press releases and enter IGF. Couldn’t hurt!
Upselling: Speaking of review codes, how will you generate those? For my first shareware game, I used a “give me your code and I’ll send you the unlock code” system, which meant I had to check my email every day (back in the era when email wasn’t quite as central to life) and drop everything, launch my “unlock” app, generate a key and send a form email reply. XBLCG takes care of this automagically.
Payment Processing: I’m not sure what the scene for this is like today, but when I got started I was using Paypal, which, again, meant a lot of “send me your code and I’ll send you the unlock” nonsense. There are payment processor sites like digitalriver and Esellerate, but these all have specific systems that are tedious to trudge through, and it’s obnoxious/impossible to make the transition from your site to the payment processor site less than majorly tacky. None of this is particularly awful, but what is is that in order to buy your game, the user has to find a credit card, enter sensitive information onto a website he or she has never heard of, and maybe even sign up for yet another account. People don’t like doing this. On Xbox Live, the account is already there, the credit card is already there, and the points are there.
Installer/Uninstaller: On Windows I was using Nullsoft Install System. It worked, but wasn’t pretty: lots of XML editing in Notepad. I guess Installshield is wonderful, but expensive. Of course, if you’ve pirated Installshield, you deserve all the bad karma you’ll get on the next point:
Piracy: You can’t pirate XBLCG games. Indie games on Windows are, quite tragically, probably the easiest games to pirate. While EA et al can invest lots of people and money into DRM, Indies can’t, and even when they try, they end up irritating a lot of people and getting cracked anyway.
Support: For a Windows release, you have to make sure the game runs. If it doesn’t, the customer will come back asking for a refund. Or they’ll want you to help them troubleshoot. Frustration ensues, usually culminating in a refund. On Xbox360, if it works on yours, it works on theirs. Wonderfully enough, in the Marketplace, the description closes with a “there are no refunds for this item.”

If you get your game released on a portal (especially something like Steam), you nail some visibility, piracy, support, and payment issues. But you’ve got to get approved. Good luck getting on Steam; I assume they put a lot of attention into maintaining a diverse portfolio. I’ve had a game on GarageGames and one on Reflexive, and both did pretty poorly.

So what about all the lack of marketing and abundance of craptastic apps on XBLCG? XBLCG gets compared to the iPhone App Store a lot. So why shouldn’t we see “there’s an app for that” ads from Microsoft? Well, it’s the economy, stupid.

Let’s say you buy an iPhone. It makes calls. It plays music. And hey, I can’t believe this, I can play Tower Defense! Tower Defense, nay, an army of Tower Defense games, on a phone is a new, exciting phenomenon! Everyone loves Tower Defense games. Now, on iPhone, they’re playable on a touch screen, they’re cheap, and they look gorgeous. It’s a step up.

Now try releasing a tower defense game on XBLCG. The games machine that’s capable of pumping out 60 fps of glorious, high def Command and Conquer or Halo Wars at 720p can also play… Fieldrunners. Heck, you don’t even get the coolness of pinching to zoom. It’s a step down.

This is why those stupid XBLCG apps that everyone loves to blame are doing well. They hit markets that aren’t touched by the rest of the platform: painting, music creation, (ugh) massage apps, drum kits, etc. In the Xbox360 market of painting, music creation, massage and drum kits, these apps are a step up.

And someone’s got to say it: all of the poor marketing, poor visibility and app overcrowding in the world can’t doom a game that wasn’t fun to play in the first place. Make better games, people! All of this blaming nonsense just hurts everyone, and tragically generates more blogroll buzz than any yay-XNA articles do.

Final word? Quit complaining. XBLCG is a great platform, but it’s not a magical money generator (unless you make yet-another-massage-game). Just making a game does not guarantee you success and wealth and fame and happiness, but putting that game out on XBLCG definitely gives you a sweet head start.

July 15, 2009 posted by James

Filed under: Jerks,XBLIG,XNA

15 Comments Comment away!

1. tjames975 | July 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM

More importantly, are you ever going to get back to Windows? I don’t plan on bothering with a new game console for a while.

I thought this XNA stuff was supposed to just port over like magic.
2. ultrahead | July 15, 2009 at 1:39 PM

“… Just making a game does not guarantee you success and wealth and fame and happiness, but putting that game out on XBLCG definitely gives you a sweet head start.”

I agree.
3. hardenthefuckup | July 15, 2009 at 3:23 PM

“putting that game out on XBLCG definitely gives you a sweet head start.”

I’m also agreeing with that? But why the whinging that other people are whinging? Article’s full of good points, but 9/10 news articles featuring a developer complaining also highlight the same things.

Plus, crap games in bigger markets sell more.
4. Daily Gaming Tidbits 07/1&hellip | July 15, 2009 at 5:44 PM

[...] James Silva, developer of the indie hit The Dishwasher: Dead Samurai & arguably one of the most recognizable success stories of Microsoft’s XNA community development platform, posted an interesting piece on his site regarding his take on the complaints about XNA & the Xbox 360’s Community Games. Check it out here… [...]
5. Kevin Gadd | July 15, 2009 at 5:48 PM

Strong points. I think the last argument you make – that most games on XBLCG/XBLIG simply aren’t good enough – is the core one. Indie titles have always been at a quality disadvantage relative to commercial titles, and that hasn’t changed; if you want someone to buy your game instead of the latest EA title, you have to compete on quality.

Likewise, the quality bar for a ‘good massage app’ is significantly lower than the quality bar for a good game, which means maybe the guy who built that massage app spent two weeks and you’re going to spend two years on your game… such is life.
6. Sharky | July 16, 2009 at 8:55 AM

I couldn’t agree more James. Great post.

XNA and the Community Games/Indie Games marketplace have made a long lost dream come true for me, and I’m ecstatic with the sales I’m still getting for my game.

“Air Legends” is well out of the new releases peak now, but sales are holding steady. I never expected to quit my day job anyway and I think it was naive for some to expect an iphone App Store windfall.
It sure is nice to have a hobby actually earning a bit of pocket money daily.

My only wish is that CG/Indie games were more visible on the dashboard – based on what I’ve heard that is (I’m in New Zealand so the CG/Indie marketplace isn’t even available here. ok, there’s another wish)

Sharky
Bionic Shark Studios
http://sharky.bluecog.co.nz
7. Sharky | July 16, 2009 at 9:09 AM

…me again.

I forgot to mention the most important part of what I was going to say.

I have had the Windows version of Air Legends available for months now via my blog.
The Windows demo has been downloaded well over a thousand times since February, and yet there has not been a single sale of the Windows full game.

It is simply not worth investing any more time in the Windows version, let alone the expense of marketing it.

The CG/Indie marketplace makes the too-hard/impossible a reality.

Sharky
Bionic Shark Studios
http://sharky.bluecog.co.nz
8. Gamers Outlet&hellip | July 16, 2009 at 8:11 PM

[...] James Silva — head of Dishwasher developer Ska Studios — has posted something of a rebuttal on his company’s blog. His comments aren’t directed expressly toward Binary Tweed, but [...]
9. Dishwasher dev defends Xb&hellip | July 16, 2009 at 8:25 PM

[...] James Silva — head of Dishwasher developer Ska Studios — has posted something of a rebuttal on his company’s blog. His comments aren’t directed expressly toward Binary Tweed, but [...]
10. Dishwasher dev defends Xb&hellip | July 16, 2009 at 9:47 PM

[...] James Silva — head of Dishwasher developer Ska Studios — has posted something of a rebuttal on his company’s blog. His comments aren’t directed expressly toward Binary Tweed, but [...]
11. jforcegames | July 17, 2009 at 12:11 AM

Word up dawg!
12. tomatogg | July 17, 2009 at 1:34 AM

dmnt! and i was thinking about writing a tower defense game for XLBCG! LOL. hey btw when are u gonna let us know more about ur “Super Secret XNA Project 2.0″?
13. Dishwasher dev defends Xb&hellip | August 27, 2009 at 9:02 AM

[...] James Silva — head of Dishwasher developer Ska Studios — has posted something of a rebuttal on his company’s blog. His comments aren’t directed expressly toward Binary Tweed, but [...]
14. chrisy1 | January 1, 2010 at 2:47 AM

You should go for it anyway, people seem to forget that it’s not all about making a profit. However well explained James Silva.
15. XNA Connection | January 6, 2010 at 8:23 AM

This article has been translated to french with the courtesy of the author, at http://www.xna-connection.com/post/Un-mot-à-propos-du-Xbox-Live-Community-Games/Indie-Games

Cet article a été traduit en français avec l’aimable autorisation de l’auteur à l’adresse:
http://www.xna-connection.com/post/Un-mot-à-propos-du-Xbox-Live-Community-Games/Indie-Games

Thanks for all James .